FS Force FS2004 Logitech Wingman Force confusing forces

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eisenfpferd
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:08 pm
Location: germany rheinland

FS Force FS2004 Logitech Wingman Force confusing forces

Post by eisenfpferd » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:50 pm

Hi there,

I just purchased fsforce after 10 testings (perhaps not enough?)

The problem is this:
When I start a Flight in FS9 the forces are wrong. I have centering-forces even if I deactivate all forces in FSFORCE menu.

Then I reload the plane and everything seems te be OK. The inflight forces feel good.
If I activate the ground forces and start with braking the forces start to confuse themself. I get sudden 100% braking-effekt but I set 20% or braking. Even if I turn of the braking effekt it is there after second braking-release.

In Windows I have a normal centering force. When I start FS the force dont stop if the FF is of in the SIM. When I reactivate the FF in the SIM the centering is gone. If I turn of the Sim FF again and reactivate the FSFORCE FF the Sim crashes (or dont response with black screen).

It looks a bit like a priority problem.

My System:
Win7/32
Logitech Wingman Force (the old big one without twisting handle)
FS2004
AMD 6950 (CCC 12.8)and nvidia NVS300
AMD Phenom2

From logitech there is no official support for win7 but win is finding the driver if I allow him to search the net for the driver.
Win7/64 dont work.
There is a Logitech Software available (logitech gaming software 4.6) wich I tried to use with win7 but it seems to block to control the forces from any other software (including your forcetest). OK, the soft (4.6) is very old. I could try to use a newer software and look if it recognize the Wingman Force.

On the FSForce website the Wingman Force is postet as supported. I think this means only winXP.

Any idea what to test now?

Is there a debug mode available in the 1.08 too?

I know, its all very old, but I think the Wingman Force is a very good joystick. Powerful and solid.
I have build a FF Flight Yoke with the electronic from this stick. It would be very bad if I had to rebuild the yoke electronic on another base.

And for me the FSX is too slow. I dont have a highend pc.

Thanks for any comment

german gegards

/Hendrik/
Phenom 2 955 @ 3,7; AMD 6950 DCII; outside Eyefinity 5x1 (19"); Cockpit 1x 17" and 1x19"

RussDirks
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Post by RussDirks » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:23 am

FS Force has never been tested with that particular joystick, and therefore I have no idea if it is compatible. Based on the experiences you are having, I would say it isn't. You could try running the force test diagnostic and see how that works out.
Russel Dirks
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eisenfpferd
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:08 pm
Location: germany rheinland

Post by eisenfpferd » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:26 pm

Hi Russel,

yes I testet with the force test tool. With this program everything seems to be ok.
In the FSForce 1 dokumentation I found a list of supported joysticks. There the "Logitech Wingman Force USB" is in the list. Wich joystick do you mean?

Its confusing, because microsoft did a bad job with the forces in FS9 but it works! With the FF activated in FS I have ground vibs, landing bumps and centering forces when airborn.
Why should this not be possible with Fsforce?

I tested it again. FSForce is working if only the inflight forces are used.

It would be kind if you would be able to help me at least with the problem with reloading of the aircraft. Not being able to use any saved flight is very bad.

I could start to rebuild my flight yoke with another disassembled joystick but this would take me another 2 months and I should be shure wich joystick is working correct with your software.

regards /Hendrik/
Phenom 2 955 @ 3,7; AMD 6950 DCII; outside Eyefinity 5x1 (19"); Cockpit 1x 17" and 1x19"

RussDirks
Site Admin
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Post by RussDirks » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:21 am

eisenfpferd wrote:In the FSForce 1 dokumentation I found a list of supported joysticks. There the "Logitech Wingman Force USB" is in the list. Wich joystick do you mean?
I was just referring to the fact that you mentioned that your joystick does NOT have a twisting handle, which indicates to me that the joystick might be older than the Logitech Wingman Force joystick that I have tested.

We need to determine whether the problem is with the joystick/driver, or with FSF 1.0. The best way to determine that is to try your joystick with FSF 2.0 / FSX, if you have it. FSF 2.0 has always been more stable than 1.0, since 2.0 runs as a separate .exe, whereas 1.0 runs as a DLL in the process space of FS and ocassionally there are conflicts with FS. If your joystick works well in 2.0, than we know the joystick is ok, and the problem is probably a conflict between FSF 1.0 and FS2004. Given the legacy nature of FSF 1.0, there is not much that can be done about that. Whereas if your joystick does not work with FSF 2.0 than we can be pretty sure that the joystick/driver is the problem.
Russel Dirks
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eisenfpferd
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:08 pm
Location: germany rheinland

Post by eisenfpferd » Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:38 am

Hello Russel,

yes this made it clear now.
I testet with FSF2. I have only a steady centering force (as I have allways when the joystick is powered on) and all the testings in "Joystick test" does nothing! There is no movement at all.
I should have tested this befor building my flight-yoke with the "wingman force". I think this joystick is as old as the Microsoft FF 1 (with gameport).

I assume you mean the "logitech wingman force 3d".

Could you please confirm that? There is one at ebay in 2 days and normaly its very cheap.

http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/support/g ... vices/2965

Is this the right thing? It has no official win7 support, but it works under win7 32+64. I had one but I destroyed it while disassambling the electronics.

Unfortunatly it has different connections for the mosfets for the motors, so I will have to build a new electronic board.
Phenom 2 955 @ 3,7; AMD 6950 DCII; outside Eyefinity 5x1 (19"); Cockpit 1x 17" and 1x19"

RussDirks
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Post by RussDirks » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:05 am

The 3D version was the successor to the basic, and very much inferior, Logitech Wingman Force.

The 3D is a pretty good joystick. If you can find a used MSFF2, I think you would be much happier with that. Of all the joysticks I've tested, it is the best. However, like I said, the Logitech 3D is pretty good as well.
Russel Dirks
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eisenfpferd
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:08 pm
Location: germany rheinland

Post by eisenfpferd » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:44 am

Thanks for the information. I will by a fiew ones.

I dont think the Force 3D is good. It has very small motors and is not wery solid.
I think the old Wingman Force is much better, but we know now it has bad electronics and old drivers.

The MSFF2 could be good too, but I have to disassamble the stick completely. I had a MSFF1 and it has a complete optical sensor. This is perfect for the stick but I have to connect potetiometers or hall effect sensors to scale the 2 axis.

I have allready a plan to use the pwm-signal of the logitech 3d.

I have to power 2 30amps motors :lol:

I will report when I´m finished.

/Hendrik/
Phenom 2 955 @ 3,7; AMD 6950 DCII; outside Eyefinity 5x1 (19"); Cockpit 1x 17" and 1x19"

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